Iris Kroonstuiver: Balancing Inner Gender Roles

by | Apr 1, 2021

As soon as I was introduced to Iris Kroonstuiver, I knew it was going to be an amazing conversation. It is. Grab pen and paper and settle in, because you won’t want to miss a moment.

Of course, Iris is an exceptional hiring leader because she was referred by Alla Pavlova! You’ll hear great tips for partnering better with recruiters and the lessons she learned as she grew into the role of hiring leader. It is also inspiring to hear how she created her latest role at GameHouse! Today she advises the CEO and hiring managers on company culture, diversity in hiring, the benefits of a transparent recruitment process and more.

But I also had to delve into what it’s like working in the male-dominated gaming industry, even though 46% of gamers are womxn, which didn’t quite lead where I expected it to. Iris instead shared the benefit of embracing feminine and masculine energy and how that leads to great creativity and diversity of thought. Rather than let me attempt to explain it, grab your headset 🎧  and hear it first hand.

It is a fascinating view on the topic! Consider it a 32-minute investment into your talent acquisition! 🧡 

You will, of course, find Iris Kroonstuiver on LinkedIn, be sure to let her know you heard her here!

Full Podcast Transcript – Iris Kroonstuiver

Hello, I am Katrina Collier, and as part of my mission to inspire all the people, that recruit people, to treat people better, I bring you The Hiring Partner Perspective (Unedited) podcast. Here you will hear from those Hiring Leaders who create true partnerships with Recruiters, HR and Talent Acquisition, because they know that it delivers a better result for the business and a better human experience. May this podcast inspire other Hiring Leaders to create better partnerships with their Recruiters and HR, and may it inspire Recruiters to create true and valuable partnerships with their Hiring Leaders. Because people make businesses succeed, and people matter. So let us begin.

Welcome to The Hiring Partner Perspective, proudly supported by the beautiful people at WORQDRIVE. Welcome so lovely to have you here

Iris Kroonstuiver 0:55
Well, thank you, Katrina happy to be here.

Katrina Collier 0:58
I’m super excited because because you were referred, of course, as all my hiring partners are. They have to be the best in the game, so super excited to talk to you. I was really curious how did you end up in the gaming industry? It sounds very cool but I was kind of curious if you fell into it, like we all do into recruitment, or if you planned it or…

Iris Kroonstuiver 1:15
No, no it’s actually been a passion of mine since I was a well since I was like six or seven I played my first game and I totally fell in love with it and it’s only later when I went to University, I was studying communication, and there was this well a side topic called gaming and so I decided to join and I never thought that it could actually turn into a career but I’ve always worked in in games and yeah I think I will do that for the rest of my life, I just love it. Yeah.

Katrina Collier 1:51
What is it about it that draws you in so much? I mean and also I’m ageing myself was it the old, you know, the Nintendo gameboy thing you know the little consoles we had?

Iris Kroonstuiver 1:59
Yeah it was the little consoles, yeah, indeed yeah it’s actually, it was the story elements. I am an avid reader but also games yeah bring this story elements and it becomes interactive and I really felt like falling into an adventure, playing the main part in that adventure, and also yeah visually I thought it was very appealing and it’s also an industry that’s changing so fast, it’s always innovating, so it’s never boring

Katrina Collier 2:34
No and I was reading it’s doing quite wel,l yeah the pandemic has definitely helped the gaming industry. It’s one of those and it has really been, has been one of those things it’s all about what industry you’re in as to how your pandemic’s going.

Iris Kroonstuiver 2:47
Yeah yeah I think I picked the right one because yeah yeah at GameHouse, where I work, yeah we didn’t see a drop while people are at home playing games maybe even more than ever so yeah I’m in the right industry yeah.

Katrina Collier 3:01
Totally. You are in quite a male dominated industry if I might I was reading yeah 46% of gamers are actually women I believe. What’s it been like being in a male dominated environment though or is GameHouse not like that?

Iris Kroonstuiver 3:16
Well let’s start with when I started this, already 15 years ago, I started as a game journalist so I would get games from publishers play them give my opinion.

Katrina Collier 3:28
Oh that is so cool.

Iris Kroonstuiver 3:29
Yeah it was and yeah I must say at that time I was one of the few female game journalists in The Netherlands and I really felt like proving myself as well. A lot of my colleagues wouldn’t believe I was a gamer too so it always felt like having to prove myself even more. Not being seen as an equal partner in conversations. But yeah well I’m a fighter so on my way in and I’m still here but yeah if I look back it has brought me a lot being able to fight for it but I’m at a point now where I feel that isn’t necessary anymore and I must say at GameHouse where we create games mainly for a female audience

Katrina Collier 4:18
Yeah, I saw that so cool.

Iris Kroonstuiver 4:19
Yeah we’re very focused on well this audience but we do have still 25% women, 75% men in the company and I’m on a mission to also change that, yeah.

Katrina Collier 4:30
Oh gosh tell me more! What the listener didn’t see was my monumental eye roll when you said I wasn’t taken seriously and I had to fight! Oh, it is a bit exhausting, isn’t it? Well what can we do, what can we, how can we create this diversity? How can we get women into the gaming industry, for example? Big big question!

Iris Kroonstuiver 4:53
It is a very big question

Katrina Collier 4:54
I expect you to answer in the next 26 minutes!

Iris Kroonstuiver 4:58
How I look at it I think for me, it’s not about male, female, black, white, young, old. What we really want to, yeah, our vision, is that we believe that having a diversity of stories, different perspectives, that that’s gonna create an environment where we are more creative, where we are more innovative. So for me, it’s really about people being in touch with themselves, the feminine masculine sides. Being vulnerable. If that means more women, yeah, I’m totally fine with that. But it truly means for me people who want to be real, want to contribute, we have good communication skills, empathy, are in touch with themselves and their to be themselves at work with all the discussions that will arise, because I think, yes, sometimes we’re too nice to each other. Yeah, I think having heated discussions for the good of the product, and for the good of the company, I think that’s really something that I want to go towards. Yeah.

Katrina Collier 6:02
I love the vulnerability. I do feel the pandemic has almost helped with that, in a way because people suddenly feel it’s okay. So how do you encourage that at work? That’s so not one of the questions I sent you over, I told you, I go off!

Iris Kroonstuiver 6:18
Well, I doesn’t matter. Well, we have something very special at GameHouse, we wanted to find a language in which we can learn more about ourselves, but also about each other. And we use the Enneagram for that. It’s sort of a personality typing tool, well, we don’t want to do is put people in a certain personality type. But it’s really more showing that you have a whole toolbox of different personalities and you can take the strengths of one and work on your weaknesses, but being open about it. So for us, I’m, for example, a Type 1, it’s more a perfectionist so my danger is I tend to well work very hard, but also feel that others should have a certain standard. But if other people know that of me, they can tell me Hey, Iris stop being your Type 1 at the moment. But what it did for us at GameHouse is that it created more self awareness, and also more openness toward others. So it also shows your vulnerable sides, because you have to see what you can improve, but also see in others how they, yeah, what makes them tick and take that into account when you work with them.

Katrina Collier 7:35
I think that helps with recruiting as well. I remember going back, because I’ve been working a lot longer than you. someone saying to me, you know what your problem is Katrina, you’re a perfectionist. And it was exactly what you said, it’s okay to have really good work. But you can’t get irritated that everybody else isn’t delivering to your standard, which is ridiculously over the top sometimes. So it’s actually really handy to have that mirrored back. And then I’ve also been talking to people about like, it’s okay to only be good at some things. Well, for some reason, people think you have to be good at everything. It’s crazy, isn’t it? Yeah. So um, Alla Pavlova was very kind to refer you as I said at the beginning, and she says your new role, because it’s your you’ve defected a weenie bit, is an Advisor to the CEO and hiring managers on company culture, diversity in hiring, transparency, sorry, transparent processes, and so on. How did that all come about? And, you know, what’s your hope for the direction of the role as you go forward?

Iris Kroonstuiver 8:30
Yeah, well, it’s actually, I started as a Producer, well Project Manager within GameHouse, well really working on creating the games. But due to a reorganisation, well my team was sort of dispensed, and then I found myself, while being able to find a role within GameHouse, which was, first of all, very cool, I wasn’t just thrown out. I’ve always been very much I wanted to be part of the decisions being made for the direction of the company. And I always felt very attracted to that I also took part in the culture team that we initiated. And then suddenly, it clicked in my head, like, I actually want to make an impact on a company level, not on a product level anymore, but really, on the company level. And another colleague at that time was going through the same sort of mental process so we teamed up, and we felt like yeah, then we need to start with the core of the company. So what is our purpose? What do we stand for? What are our values? What culture do we actually have, but what is the culture that we aspire to have in the future, and we’ve been doing that now almost two years. And what it has brought at the moment is much more clarity for the company, towards who we want to be and where we want to go towards but also in the recruitment process. So, what talent do we want to have within our company and what matches the culture that we envision? So it’s Yeah, we’re still not done. And we will never be done.

Katrina Collier 10:04
Well it probably ebbs and flows, doesn’t it as the, you know, the products change to match the market, then the company changes and…

Iris Kroonstuiver 10:09
Yeah, yeah, at the moment, yeah, we’re reinventing what we call our talent journey. So it’s also about our positioning and awareness. So yeah, what do people see when they first hear or type in GameHouse. But also the whole journey from that first moment, to the recruitment process, to the onboarding, to growing within the company, and also when you leave again GameHouse. And then all these elements come into play? Like, what type of talent do we need in a company? What do we want in a company? And do we actually hire in that way? Or are we so far from it?

Katrina Collier 10:49
Yeah, it is a journey, isn’t it? It’s funny, some of the stuff you just said, I wrote about in my book, The Robot-Proof Recruiter about that, from the moment they type in your company name. What are they saying? Wow, some companies got that wrong.

Iris Kroonstuiver 11:03
Yeah, exactly.

Katrina Collier 11:05
So have you have you found the transition hard, personally? How have you grown through that? Sorry, that’s really personal but I’m curious.

Iris Kroonstuiver 11:15
No I like personal questions.

Katrina Collier 11:17
Whether you were shocked? And went aaah or you just went to know what if you really want to do something leap?

Iris Kroonstuiver 11:21
Well, it was a, it really felt like it clicked like, yeah, this is where I add most value. And when I was a project manager, I was always sort of trying to pull people to follow the process or the project where I worked towards the deadline. And this feels very natural. So I gain, a lot of energy from it, because it comes very natural. And I can also work from my strengths, because it’s much more. Yeah, my feminine side, there were before I work more for my masculine side, like deadlines and progress and performance. This is much more from a human side, and it comes more natural. So yeah, I gain, a lot of energy from it. But on the other hand, I also came to the realisation, I’m always in the future already. But you have to work with people who are in the present, so I took a class in Change Management, also Personal Leadership, like how can I get people along with my ideas for the future. So I’m learning still a lot there. That’s the challenge for me. Yeah.

Katrina Collier 12:29
I think that’s, that’s wonderful. Somewhere some people just decide to stop learning. I think we should always be learning. I want to be learning when I’m 100. It’s very important, isn’t it? Yeah. Kind a crazy.

So what have you found when you’ve sort of slept, slept, stepped into even. Can you tell us Monday morning? Stepped into the advisor role? What challenges have you found there? Because you didn’t mention right at the beginning? Not being heard. And actually cheekily I’d love some tips, because I feel that will help other people if you’ve learned something along those lines as well.

Iris Kroonstuiver 13:05
Yeah, I think I really, yeah. Also, for my personality, I felt like yeah, this is the truth, the truth. And this is what we should do, and try to enforce my truth upon the other. Well, I’m really learning now to listen and to ask questions, and to also, yeah, have the other person through my questions reflect so much more in a coaching role. And I think that really helps, I’m still not very good at it. I still feel sometimes my ideas are the best, and people should do them. But yeah, I have to work with people now. And they need to somehow start to see the direction where we’re going but it needs to come from themselves, and that’s also what we believe at GameHouse, that we want to create a team of intrinsically motivated people. So instead of forcing, yeah, my way, I’m really trying to get it out of the people. And also, for example, with management making sure that what we do connects to them. And once they feel that, then they’re in the forefront, and they will pave the way. But trying to get on that level, I think there’s the challenge and sometimes big disagreements, but trying to find a way towards each other there. Well, that’s the daily challenge that I face.

Katrina Collier 14:20
Yeah, interesting, isn’t it? You think that people would naturally just want to do what they love, therefore are motivated, but obviously, some people just want to pay the bills. So what about on the recruitment side? I mean, you yourself have have hired and because clearly you wouldn’t be here otherwise. How did you go on a journey of becoming someone who went you know, actually, I will invest time with recruiters because it works better. I imagine you didn’t start that way initially. I don’t know. Did you have a journey to that point?

Iris Kroonstuiver 14:49
Well, I am not a recruiter, but I work with recruiters in order for them to do their best best possible job. So I see myself as the liaison between the recruiters, the hiring manager internally and our CE. And my personal role in there is to find that cultural fit find talentIthat can add to the culture so it comes very natural because I can see from all the different perspectives and I think where I’m setting up the process at the moment and the challenges that I’ve faced is the communication between hiring managers and recruiters and also the opinion of our management, what they feel it should be and trying to bring it closer and closer and closer that is really, well, my goal at the moment to get to that but to sometimes it works and sometimes so we have big discussions

Katrina Collier 15:43
What’s the resistance? Well, in the big discussions, without giving too much away. No naming names

Iris Kroonstuiver 15:48
No, no, no.

Katrina Collier 15:50
So Bob… No, so what’s their resistance to I mean I can’t understand but I would love your perspective

Iris Kroonstuiver 15:57
I think the challenge at the moment is what I mentioned before my goal is future oriented so we have set ourselves the goal in 2025 to be one of the best gaming companies to work at.

Katrina Collier 16:12
Love that!

Iris Kroonstuiver 16:13
So I’m trying to envision what that looks like in 2025 but when I work with hiring managers they need this person right now so I think it’s the tension between short term and long term and I need to put myself in their shoes but I also need to take them along with me to also start to look more at cultural fit and where we want those people that we hire now to also be in a couple of years from here. And I think that’s a very big challenge and I think we’re getting there more and more but yes sometimes, as you said before, it’s highs and lows. I think that’s it’s a healthy tension but I feel sometimes hiring managers are too much on skills and I’m too much on culture so yeah how can we find a middle ground

Katrina Collier 17:03
Interviewing together should be great. You can both have a different aspect to the person if you had all the hours that God sends to do that, of course. But of course that’s where it’s so important if that you know the hiring manager is to spend that time up front yep yeah talking to recruiters and spending time with them then you get more of an understanding of the culture fit of the team and things like that. Do you put all of that sort of like your ambition and your purpose and all those sorts of things into your job descriptions in your conversations with candidates? I don’t see that happen very often.

Iris Kroonstuiver 17:36
Now at the moment we’re working on the completely new website because well our positioning was not good, so we’re very aware of that so yeah at the moment we are really working towards creating a very strong positioning where our values, our purpose well the pillars that we created GameHouse on really come across and also make it super clear that we want intrinsically motivated talent. And we started in our hiring process to have a culture check so me or well my colleague does that and that’s really about getting to know that person so it’s not about skills at all is really what motivates you, what are you looking for, and also managing expectations like this is how we expect you to behave to add value but also your the expectations from the candidates that they also voiced that, because we can also learn from that and see new perspectives not just who we are as a company on that, so it’s more of a dialogue

Katrina Collier 18:41
Yeah I think it’s a toughy as well, isn’t it? Because in an interview because it’s such bizarre situations aren’t they the candidates probably bit reluctant to fully say what motivates them in case that’s not what you want either so.

Iris Kroonstuiver 18:55
Yeah but we found some tricks and

Katrina Collier 18:58
Ooh go on share, but not too many because we don’t want everyone else knicking this stuff you need but

Iris Kroonstuiver 19:05
It’s really about digging deeper and yeah we noticed that they start the conversation a bit uncomfortable but at the end usually they leave very inspired and often if they joined they said oh wow was actually a super valuable conversation to me because it really showed me what GameHouse is about but it didn’t come across as a sales pitch, I really saw what you what you said also in the other people that I spoke with and now in the company I recognize what you were talking about. So yeah it’s a very honest conversation and we are also honest about what doesn’t work yet in our company yeah because that’s also what they need to know it’s not all peachy rosy here

Katrina Collier 19:51
I know and how refreshing it would be to go, we have this problem do you want to come in and help us fix it.

Iris Kroonstuiver 19:58
Yeah that is a question, like if it’s connected to their role, we will tell them this is what we struggle with how would you go about it or how can you add value? And that shows also

Katrina Collier 20:09
And watch their little brian’s getting ticking and then you know it’s genuine. It’s funny that goes back to that vulnerability piece, there’s such a fear about companies being vulnerable from recruitment marketing or employer brand or and I’m doing quotes in the air as anyone that knows me knows I will be doing, but that concern that that will be impacted but actually I think the more honest the conversation the more positive it’s impacted has that been your experience?

Iris Kroonstuiver 20:34
Yeah definitely I think the most honest conversations were also yeah the people that that showed that vulnerability and also curiosity that’s also what we look for. Like yeah you don’t just join a company it’s going to be such a big part of your life we want people that ask questions that really try to understand what it’s going to mean. Yeah what does it mean for me to be in this company what can I expect? This is what I expect also explain that.

Katrina Collier 21:03
Have you coached your hiring managers to give them time to ask questions?

Iris Kroonstuiver 21:07
Working on it.

Katrina Collier 21:07
Some of the reviews I’ve seen, not of GameHouse, sorry of others, like wow. It’s one of the biggest negatives I see on the reviews is didn’t give me time to ask questions

Iris Kroonstuiver 21:19
Yeah no we yeah, as I said before, it’s a process but we yeah we see the added value of that and even though we don’t have a solid process yet what I do like is that we have our story straight so every person interviewing yes he’s part of that story coming back in a different shape or form but yeah it comes across as true when we say

Katrina Collier 21:44
Yeah I love that, yeah it’s hard I interviewing is hard.

Iris Kroonstuiver 21:48
Yes very hard.

Katrina Collier 21:49
There’s no two ways about it. So with the recruiters that you’ve worked with whether they’ve been in-house or staffing side or agency, whatever you’d like to call it, seem to have different names, what tips would you give them, what advice would you give them for like partnering well with your partnering well with any of your hiring managers or anyone you’ve worked with to be honest who’s in that role. I’m always talking about like an attitude shift but I’d be curious to hear what you think they need

Iris Kroonstuiver 22:13
Well I think we’ve we were lucky with having Alla Pavlova that you just mentioned before and another recruiter they really asked a lot of questions at the beginning when they started like, what is this company about Also had a lot of conversations with the hiring managers and also well, it was possible at that time, they would join a team just sit there for a couple of days and really feel the atmosphere, ask questions, ask the people within the team so get this curiosity. Yeah, yeah and I think that that was super valuable and what we also, what they also brought into well our recruitment process that I’m super grateful for is, first start with a job profiles so the hiring manager writes it down they ask questions but really nail it so that you have upfront expectations are clear because so often you just go in and then yeah it’s a mismatch or somebody you know and they did well in a previous company but might not do well in this company. So yeah making expectations more clear understanding the culture and also chumming challenging us. We would have a lot of discussions and I liked that they were not afraid to have those discussions, and to also look from the candidate’s point of view because we often forget, we look from our own perspective. What is it like for a candidate this experience and I think that they were being honest with us, yes sometimes really revealed how we sucked at certain parts of our process.

Katrina Collier 23:51
How are you gonna learn? But it’s funny there is so much fear you. And I think for Agency it’s fair enough, because it’s a client they’re concerned about the fee, but from in-house as well it’s like you’ve got to sit up and partner. For exactly what you’re saying! How is the company going to improve and get better at this and treat the humans better through the process, including the hiring manager because it’s both, if they don’t push back and they don’t ask more questions.

Iris Kroonstuiver 24:14
Yep yeah exactly yeah and I think what we also started doing and I really loved that is to also sort of review each other. So I would sit in in an interview process of a colleague and then give feedback like ooh you were a bit harsh here or why didn’t you ask more questions and I think being so open with each other and also being vulnerable because having someone in your interview that’s also scary but I think yeah we really want to do better then, yeah, we need to improve, simple.

Katrina Collier 24:48
Oh no I mean I will say to people I entered the recruitment industry in 2003 and I’m really bad at interviewing, I can interview these, this is fine

Iris Kroonstuiver 24:55
I think this is fun!

Katrina Collier 24:59
Whereas if I am interviewing to hire someone I am like, oh Iris is lovely let’s hire Iris, and you mightn’t even be right for the role. Sounds dreadful I just go with whether I like or not. Yeah it’s it’s tough it’s it’s interesting. I love that you said that they can push back

Iris Kroonstuiver 25:14
But I think it’s interesting also what you said, like that’s the danger we see that you often hire in your image and yeah we also struggle with that because often, you know, we get referrals and I’m trying to go with my colleague to push more towards hiring somebody who surprises you or who has a different perspective. Just as I said before this diversity comes from different points of view, different stories that you bring and I think we shouldn’t be so afraid of the unknown or the uncomfortable. And I’m always looking for a person in an interview that they come with something unexpected or uncomfortable and because then you get an interesting dialogue and then things change.

Katrina Collier 26:00
Yeah and they could be that perfect person to work with because they’ll take the stuff that you’re not so great with, you can take the stuff they’re not so great with, and work together. Yeah I was thinking of my Virtual Assistant when I think about she does all that stuff I don’t like, she’s like, that’s how she complements and I just think sometimes we forget that don’t we.

Iris Kroonstuiver 26:18

Katrina Collier 26:18
In the day-to-day and it’s so incredibly important. I love that you keep talking about that like the diversity of thought much more than the you know because it has become a bit checkbox exercise, hasn’t it?

Iris Kroonstuiver 26:29
Because yeah if you see the women, well I’m generalising now, but women getting into leadership positions they often start to act the same as men because that’s the behaviour that’s there but I believe in a shift of behavior and that could also come from men yeah it’s not gender bound to me and I think yeah being able to share freely and to communicate freely yeah it’s all boils down to trust I think that’s where we all need to work on much more.

Katrina Collier 27:04
Yeah a bit more vulnerability, a bit more trust and a bit more empathy and compassion and actually if you look at how, grossly generalising as well, but if you look at how the female leaders have dealt with this pandemic in comparison.

Iris Kroonstuiver 27:16
True, yeah

Katrina Collier 27:17
We should stay in our feminine and not, because we do adopt, it is funny but we do that isn’t it? I’ve stayed away from leadership for that reason. I’m probably a bit too honest.

Iris Kroonstuiver 27:28
I’m the same.

Katrina Collier 27:29
I probably offend a few people, I know there’s a few listeners going ah huh, who have met me in person when I’m being very Australian and not very British.

Iris Kroonstuiver 27:39
Yeah but it’s also a thing if you are in a room of men or with men and you are being too straightforward or honest and yet you’re being seen as the bitch

Katrina Collier 27:51

Iris Kroonstuiver 27:52
So finding your own voice and staying true to yourself I think well everyone should do that but I think that’s where I struggled the most in my career like yeah not trying to play a role or going along with boys, to say but staying me and I think I’m getting more and more that voice back, that I used to have.

Katrina Collier 28:13
Because you found the right role in the right company

Iris Kroonstuiver 28:16
Exactly and also there was room for me there was trust in me to be able to perform that role so that feels also very safe to have that trust put upon you

Katrina Collier 28:29
From others but also yourself also trusted yourself that it was right. I always call it the sit up energy when you find that job that makes you go I want to do that and you’re sitting up and buzzing, that’s the job you want that career direction to go the follow that buzz yeah but that’s really really sage advice as well isn’t it? Because we’ve been talking about a lot because of the events that have been going on in London which are just heartbreaking and there’s I think it’s actually happening quite globally as a lot of women up in arms certainly happening in Australia as well but that thing of, oh you’re being a bitch or you’re being emotional, whatever, I actually think just hold your ground and then you know perhaps you need to find a different team, a different company, a different, where you are valued for having an opinion and just as long as you back your opinion up with data or facts or you know so it isn’t an emotional meltdown. It is tough.

Did you have anything that you wanted to share that you haven’t got to say, that you think I was so gonna say this and Katrina asked me a completely different question because she’s annoying like that

Iris Kroonstuiver 29:32
No I very much conversation and I think it’s super valuable to keep this topic top of mind and I think having all these different perspectives, learning from each other, yeah I think that’s going to help us eventually get there so yeah, keep doing what you do!

Katrina Collier 29:51
Yeah no, no I love it I know I’m so grateful and it was a really nerve wracking during my first, like oh my goodness I am going to interview hiring managers like I’ve never talked to them before in my life but yeah but it’s been so eye-opening. I’ve been, as I said in the industry since 2003. And I’m learning so much every single time. And I just think if everybody just shares this to their hiring leaders, I mean, imagine the difference, it could create the impact. Yeah. And I know you may not meant to give the candidate time to talk, you know, things like that.

Iris Kroonstuiver 30:19
Yeah. But I see a movement, I really feel that recruiters or hiring people

Katrina Collier 30:28
Everyone that’s involved in hiring

Iris Kroonstuiver 30:30
I really feel they can add so much value, but there is already the shift in them. And also, because they communicate so much with different people. I feel they are, yeah, sponging up what’s happening in the world and the needs that there are there. So I think it’s a very important voice to listen to. And I think they can have a very big impact. If, yeah, the collaboration between the hiring managers in the companies improve even more. Yeah.

Katrina Collier 30:58
Yeah that’s what I want to see, team effort.

Iris Kroonstuiver 31:01

Katrina Collier 31:01
Because it really is. Because fundamentally, it is the people that make the companies succeed.

Iris Kroonstuiver 31:06
Yeah. Yeah.

Katrina Collier 31:08
It was a big dramatic eye roll then as well. I must remember, this is a podcast. It is so cool with Zencastr that we can see each other but it is just a podcast.

And so if anybody wants to get in touch with you, is LinkedIn the easiest way?

Iris Kroonstuiver 31:21
Yeah, LinkedIn is the easiest way. And yeah, I would love to engage in more conversations with with people to teach me more.

Katrina Collier 31:29
Absolutely. Well, you’ve taught us loads in the last 30 minutes. So thank you so much for joining us today.

Iris Kroonstuiver 31:35
Well, thank you, Katrina.

Katrina Collier 31:36
Thank you for listening to The Hiring Partner Perspective (Unedited) podcast, proudly supported by the people at WORQDRIVE. Hopefully, you really enjoyed what you heard and have left feeling inspired. And if so, I would love your help to create real change. Please pass this podcast on to your Hiring Leaders and other Recruiters and HR. Even share it on your social channels, if you feel so inclined. But the more reach we can get, the more change we can create. So please remember to subscribe, of course, on your favourite podcast platform. And do come and say hello @HiringPartnerPerspective on Instagram where I share behind the scenes of what’s going on. Until next time. Thank you.

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Fully updated for 2022, The Robot-Proof Recruiter